The Ohio House of Representatives was all out of sorts over the past week at the notion of increasing the number of calamity days for school districts across the state.  What was initially thought to be a simple piece of legislation that would be fast-tracked when it was proposed the day after Governor Kasich called for it turned out to hit a wall with many House Republicans.  The initial delay of its adoption by the House was the question of cost, specifically whether it was a waste of millions of dollars to pay “teachers for days they didn’t work” (Gerald Stebelton, House Education Committee Chair).

Interestingly enough, Republicans in the Ohio General Assembly haven’t had much problem with this notion in recent years as they have passed legislation requiring more and more standardized testing in Ohio’s schools.

Next year, we’ll be implementing a new Kindergarten Readiness Assessment for every child in Kindergarten, delivered one-on-one, and completed before November.  How many days of instruction will these Kindergarten teachers lose in order to conduct these assessments?  2? 3?  With  the window open through November 1, the state seems to imply that it should take a considerable amount of time — and shouldn’t it in order to be done correctly?

On top of that, Ohio’s new Third Grade Reading Guarantee law requires that each child in Kindergarten, first, second, and third grade be administered a standardized diagnostic reading test to assess their reading level.  These tests must be administered to all students before September 30.

On top of THAT, schools must administer a mathematics diagnostic assessment to all students in grades one and two, and a writing diagnostic assessment to all students in grades one, two, and three at least once during the school year.

Let’s start keeping a tally of the days of instruction lost since we’re only getting started.

  • Kindergarten teachers are losing: 2 days for Kindergarten Readiness Assessment (conservatively), 1 day for reading diagnostic (optimistically)
  • Grade 1 teachers: 1 day for reading diagnostic, 1 day for math diagnostic, 1 day for writing diagnostic (again, optimistically)
  • Grade 2 teachers: 1 day for reading diagnostic, 1 day for math diagnostic, 1 day for writing diagnostic

At Grade 3, we add in the Ohio Achievement Assessments (OAA), so their loss of instructional days changes:

  • 1 day for reading diagnostic, 1 day for writing diagnostic, half day for October Reading OAA, half day for April Math OAA, half day for April Reading OAA [note that the half-day only applies to “traditional” students and many students receive special accommodations which provides for extended testing time which is typically a full day; we’re strictly calculating minimum days]

At Grade 4 and above, the numbers of days lost to state-mandated tests are as follows:

  • Grade 4 teachers; half day for Math OAA & half day for Reading OAA
  • Grade 5 teachers; half day for Math OAA, half day for Reading OAA, half day for Science OAA
  • Grade 6 teachers; half day for Math OAA & half day for Reading OAA
  • Grade 7 teachers; half day for Math OAA & half day for Reading OAA
  • Grade 8 teachers; half day for Math OAA, half day for Reading OAA, half day for Science OAA

At high school, the entire school schedule is typically disrupted during the traditional March OGT administration for all 10th grade students, so every high school teacher typically loses 5 half days of instructional time (5 tests, 5 days) as they are put to work being test monitors/proctors.

Also at the high school level, since many students aren’t successful on their first attempt, the test administration windows in subsequent years disrupt the instructional time for 11th and 12th grade teachers — a number that varies widely among school districts, but is real nonetheless.

Now lets look at an estimate of the collective days of instruction lost based on numbers from the Ohio Department of Education.  According to the ODE, the student:teacher ratio is just under 20, so we’ll generously round up for ease of calculation and to keep our numbers on the conservative side.  Based on that number, here are the estimated number of teachers for the grades directly affected by the standardized testing phenomenon:

teachers-students

When we add in the column for days lost of instruction for each teacher, here’s what it looks like:

losttotesting

In the end, using conservative estimates, teachers and students are losing at least 184,555 total days of instructional time to the process of standardized testing.  What’s the cost of that, both in REAL dollars and the cost to our students?

If we use the numbers bandied about by House Republicans, the average Ohio teacher’s salary in 2013 was $56,307.  Divide that by the 182 day school year (as the GOP members did) and we get roughly $309/day.  At $309/day, with 184,555 days lost to legislatively mandated tests, Ohio law mandates that we spend over $57 million each year to pay our teachers to NOT instruct our students.

By the way, if you’re wondering about the actual cost of administering and scoring these tests, those numbers exist too, at least for the OAAs and OGTs.  The Ohio Department of Education started charging districts for replacement tests back in 2010 at a cost of $25 per test to merely “help” cover the cost.  So in addition to the incalculable cost of the loss of instructional time, what is the actual cost of administering all of the OAA and OGT tests?

costoftesting

The total cost of administering OAAs and OGTs comes to $65,731,500.00 annually.

If we combine these two amounts we come up with a (conservative) total of how much Ohio’s legislators have mandated that we spend each year to have our teachers NOT instruct our children.

$57,097,463.65 (paid to teachers to give tests)
plus
$65,731,500.00 (cost of testing program)
equals

$122,828,964.00

Ohio’s Republican-dominated General Assembly has created laws that require us to spend nearly $123 million each year to NOT instruct our children and they’re complaining about some snow days (for which they already created a law that will render the problem moot next year)?

What’s next?  Will the Ohio’s House GOP members complain about their tiring schedule that has them working 3 days a week (sometimes) for about 5-6 months a year?

 
  • becca

    Not only is Stebleton’s comment about teachers being paid for days they SUPPOSEDLY didn’t work insulting and arrogant, it’s even more insulting to have us waste more time sitting in professional development that most of the time is a waste of time and at the end of the most stressful, time consuming of dumb state mandates year any of us have ever had.

    The conversation around the water cooler in my bldg is we’d rather have kids those 2 days than sit in wasteful PD. the kids can help us tear down our rooms!

  • bobthebuilder

    So you want the children to help you do your own job…? Great ! Taxpayer money wasted even more

  • duckmonkeyman

    Perhaps we should only pay legislatures for the the time they actually set foot in the Capitol building.

  • Robert Barbrow

    or not at all

  • Melissa S.

    AMEN!

  • Brett Lewis

    Could you put up some nice charts like this that shows us the politicians amount we pay in taxes for them to not work.
    I would say you could even give them a conservative 4 weeks of vacation and a 5 day work week. I bet that number would put 4 calamity days to shame. Why do they only work about 4 months a year? The rest is spent out raising money to run again. Need to cut that crap out and actually have them do the job THEY are supposed to be doing!!!

  • Brett Lewis

    Although maybe it is beneficial when we have Republican control that they do work less. Since they do the opposite of “small government”when they are in there. Although those that vote for them still claim that is the reason they do vote for them.

  • bobthebuilder

    Sounds like they’re teachers.

  • super_teacher

    Bob, please feel free to come and spend just one month doing my job. I am 100% confident you will change your attitude toward those in my profession.

  • bobthebuilder

    I think the profession is an honorable one but is broken. Just like our gov’t. Too much finger pointing and complaining…The union as a whole across the country has changed and not for the better…I didn’t choose your profession as you did not choose mine. I could say the same thing. Come spend the day in 120° heat but I don’t see it happening…Every teacher I know complains and bitches about their job alot more than my other friends. Just gets old. If its that bad quit. That simple. If not just work and stop complaining…

  • super_teacher

    From my perspective, we have much to complain about. We no longer get to just teach. We are required to spend hours and hours on time-wasting paperwork and data. And when we are teaching, it’s all about THE TEST. I could go on and on. Anyway, I’m nearly done. I’ll soon retire, I sure am glad my husband has a high paying job with good insurance.

  • bobthebuilder

    Jobs evolve….

  • super_teacher

    FYI, most of my students have consistently improved their scores dramatically above their previous year’s scores, so I must be doing something right.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Then I applaud you. But why is the teacher below you still employed? Thats one of my biggest gripes. Until recently there was no accountability.

  • rhetorical

    There still isn’t. Now there is the illusion of accountability and the fear of being fired for factors beyond a teachers’ control. Progress!

  • Think.

    What about the waste of Ohioans’ tax dollars to pay ALEC members, like Gerald Stebelton, for days they don’t work? Our “lawmakers” no longer create any legislation- they only promote laws written by ALEC to benefit its for-profit educational members.

  • irish_monk

    Could they at least pay me for the time I spend before school and after working on lessons, grading, etc.? If they could also cover the time I spend working on my SLO’s that would be great, too, since I had no real training on it plus I’ll have to re-write them next year when we change our curriculum. I do wish they would pay us for the time we work. We’d be rich.

  • Nathanial Poling

    in the private sector, workers have to go without pay or take vacation days when they can’t make it in or work is closed due to a level 2 or 3. Why shouldn’t this be the same with government workers?

  • Erin Greener Walleman

    Teachers are salary workers. The salary workers I know in business were still paid when their company was closed.

  • Nathanial Poling

    I am salary and I have to take vacation time

  • duckmonkeyman

    I was salaried and could work from home.

  • David M. Schmitz

    Do you think we educators know no one in the private sector? Two hour lunches (daily), business meetings (golf…wow that’s hard work), “working from home” (interesting new American phenomenon)…etc. Cut the crap about the private sector. I work my ass off everyday that I am in school. What about the countless hours spent at home and before work. The state of OHIO could give me all the “snow days” they want and it wouldn’t pay me for all my extra time. Would it surprise you to know how many of my colleagues spent their snow days? That’s right…..doing SCHOOL WORK! Don’t get me wrong. I love what I do…..I chose it. Nonetheless, I don’t need ignorant politicians beating up on teachers like Republicans in Ohio have been doing for years. You are are still just pissed off about HB5.

  • DKD45805

    ^^This. The golf Fridays, shady business trips, and two hour lunches more than equate to a “summer off”.

  • Barb

    “summers off” Seriously? For a teacher, this means taking college courses to maintain our teaching license that need to be renewed every five years and reviewing new curriculum that must be implemented when school resumes in August. I am never idle during those summer months and I speak for many teachers that feel the same way.

  • DKD45805

    Me too!! I have yet to see a summer off. I was agreeing with David.

  • DKD45805

    I was agreeing with David, which is why I used the “^^This”….to show that I agree with the statement above mine. I have also never seen a summer off, and I get sick of people talking about it.

  • Beth Mast

    yes, and then take a part time job to pay for those needed college courses

  • bobthebuilder

    Hard work tanning…

  • bill

    I’m sure that was known when you chose this profession. Correct?

  • WriterLady

    I agree that teachers should be paid for calamity days. And I’m certainly not one to begrudge your hard work. However, let’s put a few things in perspective, shall we? I am an educator as well. After spending 2 years as an adjunct instructor of freshman composition and 6 years working in the educational publishing industry (in-house), I branched off on my own to start a successful freelancing career. The snarky “work from home” comment is completely misleading. On average, I spend 50-60 hours a week writing content for a variety of programs for major publishers and well-known vendors. The work can range from Grades 4-12 (in addition to the collegiate level), with a focus on Reading/ELA and Social Studies. I’ve worked on print materials such as teacher guides and student workbooks, to highly complex digital programs that require knowledge of IT skills as well as significant writing expertise. Last week, I worked roughly 80 hours to meet several critical deadlines for a major digital product launch. This is not completely out of the ordinary, although it’s also not the norm. With that said, I rarely ever see a 40-hour week, and I only take one week of vacation a year. This is almost entirely by choice, as I am not one to turn down an offer, so I essentially segue from one long-term project to another, with virtually no time to breathe. Those of us who work from home in luxury (sarcasm fully intended) to support teachers are happy to do so, but reading your comment makes me think that there might be a slight disconnect from reality. Should you receive calamity pay? Absolutely. Do I understand that you work evenings and summers? Yes, I know that you work very hard. But those of us who either work in the private sector or work as entrepreneurs do not exactly have it easy. I know very, very few ordinary people–those who aren’t politicians or executives, for instance–who get the perks you’ve described (with the exception of working from home, which we’ve already established is not exactly a perk, in most instances). My brother, for example, works in the private sector as an engineer and logs roughly 60-70 hours per week. He is paid fairly well, but he’s salaried, and he certainly isn’t going on golf outings on Friday afternoons. Just as you want respect, the rest of us do as well. The only way to come to a common understanding is to look around and realize how difficult ALL of our jobs may be, albeit it in different capacities. And, yes, we chose our separate career paths. I preferred writing to teaching, and I fully knew what I was getting into when I decided to go into educational publishing (especially as an independent publishing professional). Again, I want to reiterate that I am a champion for teachers…in all respects. A little perspective and respect is all that some of us ask.

  • David M. Schmitz

    The difference here is that YOU are not being attacked in the Ohio Legislature…I am. Teachers in OHIO have been consistently treated with such disrespect and talked about as if we are lazy slouches. My brief commentary was simply to point out that there are multiple sides to an issue. Extra snow days turned from a simple pragmatic decision to a political forum…that is what I can’t stand. And for the record, I love my job and would invite anyone to try it for one day!

  • WriterLady

    And that’s fine. I was pointing out your incorrect assumptions about the private sector, which are, in fact, misleading. Most of us “ordinary people” do not do two-hour lunches or partake in extravagant business ventures (again, unless you’re speaking of extremely wealthy business men or women). If you want to prove your point and shore up sympathy, it would behoove you not to make grand claims that are largely untrue. People working in the private sector are busting their rears on a daily basis as well, and often with many fewer benefits (no, I’m not talking about perceived summer vacations for teachers). Regarding Republican legislators: They attack everyone in the middle class, so I wouldn’t take specific offense to their out-of-touch proposals. Regular citizens in our communities, however, are generally very supportive of teachers.

  • Nathanial Poling

    2 hour lunches? not everyone in the private sector is an investment banker, yet that same guy is working 365 days a year 70 hours a week… tell me more about 3 months off in the summer plus vacation days on top of it… I respect teachers, it is a tough job but anyone who complains about 56k/year when they get 3 months plus vacation plus good benefits… get with the rest of us in the real world when you want me to cry that you have to work a couple extra days in the summer because snow gave you some extra time off.

  • Becky Snipes Thompson

    You have adequately proven that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about teachers.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    They whine alot…

  • David M. Schmitz

    Th interesting thing is once again how YOU miss the point. I have yet to read about one teacher on here “crying” about our teaching extra days in June. Nor, have I heard the teachers in MY school complaining about working extra summer hours. Many teachers are fortunate to have some of the best benefits going. My retirement plan in Ohio is one of the best, and one which will allow me to retire before many of my colleagues in the private sector. I get almost 2 and a half months off work, which I do enjoy to the fullest as I RENEW from doing the hard work of TEACHING which I am quite certain you know nothing about YOU have done it. I am proud of what I do and I am sure you work equally as hard, maybe even HARDER than ME. All that said, the point here is that the state of OHIO isn’t attacking YOUR profession, however, it is, and has been attacking MINE. The ignorance makes me angry. Oh, and for the record, teachers were not rioting in the streets for a few more snow days. That was the governor’s idea. Would it make me happy? At this point, what’s the difference? It’s just another opportunity for the CONSERVATIVE Republicans to show how little they know about the work of my people. Oh, and people who say they “respect” teachers, so “don’t misunderstand me”, and most “ordinary people” respect the profession, and then turn around and spout their ignorant rhetoric are what they are. They are the same people who sit around and envy what everyone else has, and they don’t. I admire the person who says to me, ” you know David, I am jealous that you will retire at 50, and at the same time, I wouldn’t have your job.” They get it.
    Ordinarily, I would NEVER write on one of these forums, but recently, I am sick of being the selfless, dutiful “public servant”, keeping my mouth shut, and smiling as people ignorantly run down my profession. By the way, I have used the word “ignorant” (kindly) here because that’s what it is. NOT KNOWING.

  • bobthebuilder

    As a salaried worker you should work the days missed like everybody else. If hourly then bitch..

  • bobthebuilder

    20 min lunch here. No golf…I made it to work and my wife had to use vacation time to watch our child during the storm…and the teachers I know were out sledding with their own kids on those days…

  • super_teacher

    So, now we know why you’re so bitter. You’re one of those parents who thinks teachers/schools are your babysitters and you’re mad that you or your wife had to tend to your own children on those snow days.

  • bobthebuilder

    Why would I be mad. My child got to spend a day with somebody who cares for her…I actually left work early and went sledding with them. Whos bitter?? Probably the person who hates their own job…

  • Ronald J

    I for one spent those “snow days” catching up grading papers, and re-working the lessons I was going to do but couldn’t because of the calendar (semesters end in mid January). Perhaps not a full “clock” day in school, but it was hours. On another occasion I used a half day on a snow day to take care of matters I could not after school and would normally have needed to take a personal day to do (and the district would have paid for that and paid for a sub).

    Please don’t assume that snow days = nothing is accomplished. In the private sector many people on weather days will tele-commute for part of the day. A lot of teachers do the same.

    For the record… I’m not opposed to having to work to get paid on those days. But there is a lot you can do that does not require showing up AT your work place.

  • wetsu

    You private-sector leeches are doing a bang-up job creating jobs, aren’t you? That reminds me of when the politicos instituted WEP and opened the flood gates for stealing from social security. My wife was early in her teaching career and we found it odd how anyone could think that her salary could be included in a windfall. Years later it became clear that it was greed.

  • Nathanial Poling

    private sector leeches? thanks for showing us where the teachers are coming from… at least I am not a socialist union leech… hopefully you aren’t indoctrinating my children with that piss poor mindset

  • Natalie

    Oh my – this throws a little light on where YOU are coming from. Did you feel attacked? This is what the education profession has put up with for years now.

  • bobthebuilder

    Future wal-mart greater,^^^. To pay for college that is…

  • bobthebuilder

    And the educational profession is doing a bang-up job with students who can’t even make change at the local fast food joint they now work at…

  • carrieee4

    In the private sector where you are paid a salary your pay is not deducted!

  • andrea123

    But you are expected to do the work. Whether at home or staying late.

  • carrieee4

    AND SO ARE WE!!!!
    Are you kidding me? You have no idea what extra work I do that I do not have time to do on an ordinary day! It really takes most of the day and more than what Iwould be able to do while teaching!

  • bobthebuilder

    It should…make them hourly..

  • super_teacher

    We could be paid hourly, like attorneys are, but it would be an hourly rate commensurate with our amount of education, no $25.00-$30.00/hr. Better be prepared for some pretty hefty paychecks to be written, as many of the teachers I know spend countless hours beyond the school day working. It would actually cost districts more to pay us per hour. Sounds like something we, as teachers, should look into.

  • bobthebuilder

    Pay would be set by the market…not you!!

  • http://plunderbund.com Joseph

    That’s about enough, Bob.  If you have something new and/or true to add to the conversation, please go ahead and do so.
    Otherwise, I think you’ve exhausted your teachers-are-lazy-overpaid-moochers rant for today.
    ——– Original message ——–

  • bobthebuilder

    Truth is our country is falling behind in education. Only one group to blame….hmmm. Never said they were moochers….whiners yes!!

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Let the world education rankings speak for themselves??

  • Lilbooms

    No teacher would be affordable if they were paid hourly. If they were paid by the hour, they might actually get paid close to what they’re worth!

  • bobthebuilder

    Or like the auto/IT worker they will be replaced by cheaper just as good labor;) other side of the coin to ponder…

  • wetsu

    A person who works in a support capacity in public education told me that William Lager weighed in by putting forth the proposition that teachers should not be paid for shoveling snow. Since he writes the big checks the lap dogs in Columbus leaped to action to address this egregious wrong. I suspect that many teachers would accept this mockery if 1) There was an inquiry as to why the legislature doesn’t hold the charters as accountable for their miserable performance, and 2) Why there is no movement afoot to provide professional development to our politicians considering their track record.

  • Ronald J

    Good article, but you forgot about OTES! Every teacher will pre-assess and post-assess students, which is another half day each (easily!). Then there are the pre and post observation meetings with administration that either pull the teacher out of the classroom or takes up valuable planning time NOT spent planning instruction of children. Conservatively, double the cost of what the article states in dollars spent “not teaching”!

  • bobthebuilder

    Just do what is told of you…It’s your job to do that only…

  • super_teacher

    We were hired to teach children. We only WISH they would let us “do our job.”

  • bobthebuilder

    You were hired to do what they tell you…You are an employee…

  • love how people see us

    I for one piloted the new kindergarten readiness assessment. I only piloted one of the six sections and it took me countless days to complete… One on one with every student. Used my own time at home to complete the online training. Was pulled out of my class to go to webinars and scored them at home and put the answers into an online database. This was only one section I can’t wait to see what it will be like for 6 sections…this will easily take more that 5 days to complete… At The beginning of the year when establishing routine rules and everything else we do in kindergarten is so important. I am constantly testing my students and there is no time for them to be 5 and 6 year olds.

  • buckeyeteacher

    I am a kindergarten teacher and would love to have more info about the revised testing. I am appalled at what is expected of five year olds, many who have had no prior school or structured experience.

  • gregmild
  • DKD45805

    By their own rationale, let’s not forget about the back-pay we should be receiving for the winters that did not call for the 5 calamity days that are always embedded into the yearly calendar. The 5 calamity days that we were never paid for to begin with. So, when we do NOT use all 5 days, we are volunteering our time and services. I’m ready for my back-pay, plus interest! Further, the idea that we work only when school is in session is as crazy as thinking that a lawyer works only when court is in session.

  • zap1996

    @ DKD45805 – Sorry, I disagree. I used to work in the business field before I changed my career to teaching. I was NOT paid for calamity days or sick days. I got 2 weeks of vacation and after 5 years, 3 weeks. We had 11 paid holidays. I was salary and averaged 48 hours per week. I love teaching and currently average over 50 hours a week. Teaching is hard, stressful, but very rewarding. I DO believe teachers are spoiled with 3 personal days, sick days, holiday breaks and calamity days.

  • DKD45805

    First….I do not get paid for calamity days, either. In my state, they are days added to the calendar, in addition to the days that we are contractually obligated to teach. So, a teacher getting paid for 180 days of work has a calendar of 185 days of work (those 5 days are embedded into the schedule). If those five days are not used, they are volunteerism. I did not say anything about vacation days, holidays, sick days, or personal days, so I really don’t know why you are replying about that. Honestly, I wonder about your teaching assignment and quality of work, if you do no work at home or on holidays. I, too, used to work full time in the business world. Now, I work part time in the business world. I think teaching is more difficult (on many levels), with much less respect. If you are feeling spoiled, I think your district should add a prep or two to your schedule to keep you challenged. Nothing is worse than a teacher who isn’t working hard enough…and going around bragging about what a gravy train they are on. Regards.

  • zap1996

    Sorry for this misunderstanding. I’m not sure what I said to give you the impression I am not challenged in my teaching assignment. I am just in disagreement about back pay for calamity days. I spend a tremendous amount of time in and out of the classroom. The benefits far outweigh the benefits and stringent hours I worked in the private sector. As far as my teaching assignment: I am very challenged. I’m usually at school 2 extra hours each day and then take work home. I prepare 9 different lessons for each day = 45 plans in a 5 day week. My lesson plans are created and done at home, as well as all newsletters, website updating, etc. I have worked until 11 pm on Friday nights and come into school on Sundays. It usually takes me 2 full weeks just to set up my classroom each new school year and a 12 hour day to close it down. Almost every classroom teacher works these same hours. We also spend about $500 – $600 each year on materials for our classroom. I’m sure this is very similar for you. This is the career we chose. I did not mean to offend you or anyone else on here.

  • DKD45805

    All I’m saying is that all the winters that we did not use our 5 calamity days, teachers worked those days without pay. I’m a teacher in Ohio, and this representative is very close to me. My district has used 9 calamity days this year. I would be happy to make up the 4 days we went over those 5 that are already embedded in the schedule. That being said, the rule that paid/unpaid calamity days, whether we go over or under those 5 days, should work both ways, or at the very least, be acknowledged. The general public often thinks that those 5 days are “days off”, and they are not, as they are unpaid. This year, we exceeded 5 calamity days. I would understand if they wanted us to make each one up. At the same token, there were years where 0 calamity days were used, which is the equivalent of one full week of school, where teachers volunteered. In what other profession would that fly? I know I’m never going to see back-pay. I wouldn’t waste too much time advocating for that. I’m just trying to make people think, and educate the public. Those five calamity days, if unused, are days that teachers work without pay. That is a fact.

  • zap1996

    I understand. I am also a teacher in Ohio. Thank you for taking the time to respond back. I am tired of arguing with the private sector too on how easy teachers have it. I try to see both sides and feel knowledgeable because I worked in the private sector from 15 years old until I was 33 years old. Teaching has been by far the hardest, but most rewarding job I’ve ever done.

  • DKD45805

    I would like to add that I am not, at all, against going to work at the end of the school year to make up days. I will go to work when they tell me to. Like I always do. However, I resent the notion that teachers are, or were ever, “getting paid to not work.”

  • Stef

    Let’s banish the misconception that teachers get paid for vacations or holidays. Holidays such as President’s Day, Christmas Break, Thanksgiving, etc. are NOT paid days. Those days are not part of the 182 days for which teachers are paid. According to your own admission, after five years of work you received pay for 26 days for which you did not work. And you feel teachers are spoiled? Why did you leave the private sector?

  • zap1996

    I left the private sector because I wanted to work with children, touch lives and make a difference. I didn’t want to look back on my career after 40 years of service and apply my efforts/talent into benefiting a company. I do think we are spoiled by our benefits. The hours I put in after school are at my convenience. I can make doctor appointments after school now (without taking time off) and attend my son’s sporting events, practices, etc.

  • Audio7

    Your benefit package wasn’t a gift from heaven. It took decades of hard
    negotiating and by men and women many of whom
    are now long dead upon whose shoulders you stand. If you think
    otherwise, we can thank the likes of ALEC who have
    propagandized the public into thinking that educators are just the
    hired help.

  • bobthebuilder

    They are…

  • Audio7

    “They are”…..educated, dedicated, and deserving of more respect and more money….yes, I agree with you.

  • bobthebuilder

    No overpayed hired help…

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    First true and sensible thing I read on here…Thank you…

  • bobthebuilder

    You only work 182 days and the real world works 250 on average…Suck it up…

  • Melissa S.

    This discussion has been ongoing for years! I really don’t think there is a point to argue with such negative people who have no respect for the profession. Besides, they’ll go watch a major sporing event where those athletes are paid in the millions – and never see anything wrong with that. I’m tired of defending the teaching profession for the 30 years I’ve taught. It’s a defeat I accept, because some will just never get it! To those – I invite you to visit a classroom any day and see it firsthand how easy we’ve got it! In the mean time – we’ll feed your child breakfast, lunch, snacks, bus them to school and back, have weekly lessons on bullying and how to develop character that the parent has obviously lacked the ability to do – and do it all with smiles on our faces :) In my next life though, I’d like to come back as a weatherMAN – they can screw up the weather prediction and continue to have a job day after day – without data, interventions, and researched based practices!

  • bobthebuilder

    Well we feed our child, transport her also. I’ve taught her to respect her elders but also to stick up for herself. As far as her character goes, we’ve been told that she is one of the happiest children her teacher has come across in 25 yrs of teaching. She is ahead of her peers in almost every aspect of her education and is a yr behind in age , so I would say we are doing a fine job as parents…One day people will learn to stop waiting for stuff to happen and just take it and run…I was told years ago to get an education because that is what gets you more $$$. Well guess what, it’s not always true…Hard work gets you $$$…A piece of paper does not define who you are…As far as becoming a weatherman I doubt you could handle the stress of being told you are wrong ALOT as is proven in your last remark…And I don’t go to sporting events…Don’t own a single jersey of any kind…I do things with my wife and child that are fullfilling to us…so do your job and teach my child and thats it…We wouldn’t want her to pick up any of your bad habits

  • Kyle

    Ok so my father is a teacher. He does work in 120 degree heat for a small part of his year and he doesn’t get to sit in a cushy chair all day. He spends his days on his feet has responsibilities during his lunch, before, and after school. He and just about every other teacher i know work at least one day each weekend preparing lessons and grading papers. There are days that he may work 14 or 15 hours. I am sorry that the teachers in your district went on strike. I personally don’t think teachers should strike during the school year. Anyways I have a question for you what would teachers need to do to not only earn your respect but also to in your opinion earn their pay and for that matter what do you think would be a reasonable salary for a teacher to make?

  • bobthebuilder

    Well teachers don’t stand ALL DAY…I have been to school and witnessed it firsthand…Im not trying to say teaching is an easy profession it’s not.What Im trying to say is that we all work hard (8-16 hrs a day) and the biggest complainers are teachers and nurses. They chose that career path so just do your job or find another…If my job got to that point I would find another…

  • Kyle

    What is your chosen career anyway?

  • bobthebuilder

    Industrial…

  • rhetorical

    Did your career choice require intensive graduate level training? Let’s compare apples to apples.

  • Melissa S.

    You’re one of a kind in respect to how you have raised your child. I applaud you. However, you are a minority in my area of high poverty and high unemployment. It’s tiring defending our profession – people think all we do is complain. We just want understood – appreciated and treated with respect that we deserve. We are professionals! I don’t see it as complaining, but the male world often does – it’s just stating the facts so we’re understood by Joe Public. I’m still trying to figure out how the legislature found Ohio public school funding unconstitutional, yet nothing has been done to ‘fix’ it. Funding in Ohio public schools is not equitable. Where are all the people speaking up about this group? It’s obvious some people just don’t have a clue of what it’s like in our world. And I became a teacher because I care about the future of our children. I’m in the profession because I know I make an impact on society and on children who may one day be wiping your a*s or picking out your care in a nursing home.

  • rhetorical

    If you read the comments, teachers want to do their jobs. The state government is interfering heavily with their ability to do so.

  • bobthebuilder

    They already get paid too much for working only 182 days a year…

  • super_teacher

    My oh my, Bob. Sounds like someone is a tad bitter. Did you have a bad experience in school many years ago? Or are you suffering from some misplaced sense of jealousy. For the amount of education that teachers are required to have, and must continue to obtain to maintain their licensure, and the price tag that goes along with all of that education, no, I don’t believe teachers are overpaid, not by a long shot. I don’t know too many teachers who only put in 182 days a year. Most work many more. Most districts spread teachers’ pay out over the calendar year, which makes people like you misinterpret it to say that we are being paid not to work in the summer. We earned every penny of our salary. And due to licensure requirements and teachers just trying to get better at their jobs(which unlike the private sector, does not translate into making more money), many spend their summers taking more classes/workshops. Again, I invite ANYONE who thinks we teachers have a cushy job to come spend a month (not a day, not a week, I want it to be long enough for you to get a real feel for it) in my shoes. Obviously, you have NO clue.

  • bobthebuilder

    Sick of you whining all the time about working, having to do things afterwork and generally bitching about your job all the time. Jealous?? No. I make more and work harder… But I do it without whining and crying…You took the job knowing you needed to educate yourself further. So why cry about it…Try working in 120° heat without your cushy chair and a/c.. Thats a real job…After watching the strike in my local district its really sad to say I lost all respect for some of you.. .

  • rhetorical

    I’m sure you had tons of love and respect for teachers before the negotiation impasse.

  • bobthebuilder

    You are paid for them!!! It’s just that you’ve been taught to give the union response….

  • duckmonkeyman

    Teachers “spoiled”? Are you really a teacher or just trolling? I worked 25+ years in private sector. We had 2 personal days, 2-4 weeks vacation, flex time, stock options, bonuses, holidays. Lunches were out and flexible. I could take comp time to take kids to appointments. I was also paid three times what I get teaching. In reality, we could work from home on “calamity” days. Our execs would be in “meetings” on the golf course on Thursdays at one company. At my buddies’ company, they get a BMW after 5 years. It is true that the 2008 recession has eroded those benefits, but they are gradually returning for professionals.

    I also loved teaching. But the environment in Ohio has turned very negative towards teachers. Under the anti-education leaders now running the state, the asssumption is all teachers are incompetent and lazy. The politicians believe teachers must be closely monitored and cannot be trusted. Micromanagement is now the norm. Rigid testing and punishment is layered upon unfunded mandates and unproven standards. Education has become a line item cost rather than an investment. Innovation, collaboration, and freedom have been replaced with fear, stack ranking, and big government interfere in the classroom. Ohio can do better.

  • Nathanial Poling

    I think you need to calculate what you made per week after you paid for benefits like 401k and health insurance. Teachers make a very nice wage per week worked once they have taught for a few years and they can supplement their income if they choose to during the summer months or they can coach athletic teams. It is not anti-teacher to point this out… it is just being realistic and asking people to take a step back and calculate how much they are being compensated for doing a tough job.

  • bobthebuilder

    Backpay? So you want to be paid for nothing? You already do that all summer…

  • super_teacher

    Really? Are we still on that? NO…we DO NOT get paid for doing nothing in the summer. Some people just never learn.

  • Nathanial Poling

    then your pay is a lot higher per week… maybe you should run the pay per week calculation… if you work 35 weeks that is $1,600 per week plus benefits… which is 83k/year if you worked all year round not including benefits and pension when compared to everyone else at jobs that require all year round work who make a lot less per week of work. It is a tough job but you are compensated well and have the option of sitting by the pool and relaxing or getting a 2nd job and supplementing your income for 3 months.

  • jabman549 .

    Ha! I was waiting to see this….Trust me honey, you “teachers” whining about the “extra” time you spend for test preparation is falling on deaf ears. Only those in your own circle are entertaining the obsessive tantrums over it. To the rest of the working population, you guys still have it pretty good. I suggest you take your three months summer vacation, your two weeks “winter break” and your one week of “spring break” and keep your mouth shut. You may, one day, find yourself working a legitimate 40-60 hour a week job that only gives you 2-4 weeks of vacation/personal time…..and by the way, keep voting for these democrats and you’ll also find yourself without that cushy pension you’ve also been promised.

  • super_teacher

    Save your “honey” for your biscuits. Again, TOTALLY clueless people talking about things they know not. I am already AT school a minimum of 40 hours per week, I am gone on average 10 hrs a day. Those others who are in the work force that we know, don’t put in 50-60 hrs week, most are at 40. And I know all about long work days, now and when I was in college getting an education taking 20 hrs of classes and working 30 hrs weekly at a job while also keeping up with all the requirements for my classes. So don’t feed me your crap like I don’t work hard. My district did NOT get two weeks off at Christmas, and we get Good Friday off for Easter, not a week. And most teachers have to spend a big part of their summers taking classes to keep their licenses renewed. Personally I spent summers and weekends taking classes to get my master’s. There are numerous other points to be made, but I’m intelligent enough to figure out that my words fall on deaf ears, so I will no longer waste my valuable time. I have papers to grade. Good night.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Most, if not all the salaried workers I know put in nearly 50hrs a week. My pay is actually based on 48hrs a week. I’ve yet to work less than that in the 8 years I have worked there.

  • Mark

    One of the main reasons I left teaching high school was because of shi* like this. Education is about more than test results and job training.

    We are hurting our children and are creating adults who will live robotic, boring lives for the corporate world. But, then, people who can’t think and who have little notion of creativity, self-potential, and beauty are just what the corporate leaders want—people easy to manipulate and control.

    Testing is little more than Big Business. Lots of money to be made if we spend time testing rather than teaching.

  • Lynne Lupton

    I thought the problem was children missing instructional time. If so, why would they ask teachers to go on calamity days instead of making up days with the children as necessary? My time would be better spent with children instead of forced, unplanned teacher development days.

  • carrieee4

    Forced teacher development is a slap in the face. I for one have attended more hours of PD in my work life than I spent in undergrad and graduate school. Most of which were on my own initiative. Personally I HAVE HAD IT! With politicians and those who believe them. This is a slap in the face with an iron hand with brace knuckles. It is about time we say I have had it and I won’t stand for it anymore!!!!!! problem is when we do we lose our jobs and we are there for the kids more than anything else and we cannot stand the thought of what might happen to them so we do not stand up like we should.

  • Nathanial Poling

    It is a slap in the face to ask that you work 2 extra days? Heaven forbid you miss out on a couple days of your 3 month summer vacation. I have lots of friends and family on Facebook and by far and a way the ones taking the most vacations are teachers… any guess why? Those of us out in the real world don’t get 60 days of vacation plus extra sick and personal days. Calling this out is not disrespecting your line of work, it is calling you out to get a little bit of perspective of the parents of the kids you teach and those who pay your salaries. You have a tough job and 3 months off is part of the reason people love to be teachers, but don’t flip out when people actually have an opinion that you should have to make up time for snow days you sat at home and slept in while the rest of the world was braving the bad roads to go to work.

  • carrieee4

    And you did not even mention that those tests grades K-2 give are given 3 times a year fall winter and spring!

  • Jane Morrison Snage

    Then maybe they should pay overtime to the staff that work after school on weekends, and for the time they work or take classwork during the summer break. They could also reimburse staff for all the things they buy for their classrooms and students.

  • bobthebuilder

    Maybe they should get paid by the hr and not the year…also alot of people purchase things for their jobs that cost significantly more than school supplies. . Ex- mechanics/construction/ machinists

  • Nalajane

    Please, pay me by the hour! I would love to clock my time. 12-15 hour work days, plus at least 8-12 hours on the weekend grading and lesson planning. Oh, don’t forget to include the time I spend during the summer getting ready for the upcoming school year. None of which I get paid for currently. I would be making significantly more. Great suggestion, Bob! School supplies and classroom resources for the different subjects, grades and classes you teach is quite expensive, especially when you do not get reimbursed. Luckily my school provides paper for my students to complete their work, but I know some districts that make the teachers’ purchase their own.

  • bobthebuilder

    A- we all mostly buy supplies for our job in some capacity (I spent 5k last yr). B- you do get paid for your summer work! It is called a salary…C- you do not spend 12-15 hrs each day working on your job and 12 on weekends…I know numerous teachers and they don’t…I know this because I hang out with them after school hours…I mean come on lets be real…

  • super_teacher

    Again, no, most people in most professions DO NOT buy their own supplies for their jobs. What world are you living in? No, I don’t work 12-15 hours most days, but I do put in a lot of extra hours that you and others would never know about.

  • bobthebuilder

    I buy stuff all the time and have for the last 20 years. Personally I would rather own what I use then rely on someone else…

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    I worked over 700hrs of OT last year so i do know about long days…

  • super_teacher

    Husband said to tell you if you were union, you would have been paid for those 700 hrs of OT, just like he is. Again, who in their right mind thinks that an employee SHOULD DONATE their time for the benefit of a company/business that they have no stock in???!!! Hubby wonders just where you draw the line with your dedication to your job, i.e. why aren’t you just volunteering instead of drawing a paycheck? Not that dedicated?

  • super_teacher

    My husband has been a machinist and a maintenance mechanic and he has NEVER had to supply ANY of his own tools.

  • bobthebuilder

    Well good for him.. Look at job listings and see how many say own tools needed…

  • bobthebuilder

    After talking to some friends who are machinists. I learned that all had bought their own tools/mics over the years at some point. But none were union shop workers. So maybe in that aspect you don’t. They did all say it would be hard to do anything efficiently if you had nothing…

  • rhetorical

    Cool story, bro. If those machinists were buying tools for their machines to consume, it might be comparable. Teachers buy supplies less for their own use and more for their students.

  • bill

    Did you not know this when you chose that career as a teacher??

  • rhetorical

    A) you don’t know what I chose for my career, so assume less.
    B) Teachers are not required to purchase supplies for students. The state is required to provide adequate funding. No student should be without supplies. When the state fails to live up to its responsibility, teachers often take the burden of providing for those who fall between the cracks, not because it is their job, but because someone has to. This has nothing to do with career choice. Teachers in affluent districts do not have to provide for nearly as many as teachers in poor districts. Teachers in rural or urban districts have the same careers as the teachers in affluent suburbs.
    C) It is pretty crass to expect someone to take on the state’s slack as a career choice expectation. We all owe Ohio’s teachers a huge debt of gratitude.

  • andrea123

    We’ve spent thousands on my husbands tools as a mechanic. So it is not a stretch. Everytime he tells me the Snap on truck showed up I know it cost us something.

  • Susan Browning Dodge

    If a teacher stays home on a bad weather day due to a Level 2 or 3 snow ban, but the schools remain open, they do have to take a personal day or get docked pay…just like.privatw sector workers. The problem is, schools CLOSE for the day, it is not the teacher’s choice to stay home. Their employer has closed for the safety of children. Teachers should absolutely not be docked when they are not working and its not their choice. Republicans in the House are ridiculous. How insulting to imply teachers are free loading! Teachers spend hours and hours and hours doing school work at home on nights and weekends. And contrary to popular belief, they do not get paid for summers off. They get paid then for time already worked during the year and having their checks spread out over the entire 12 months. So, in reality, they are owed interest money by the districts who get to hold on to that money after it is earned.

  • bobthebuilder

    182 days is not a full work year..

  • Amanda

    182 days is not a full work year. Hence the reason teachers do not get a full year’s salary. They get paid for the 182 days worked and then (depending on the district) choose to spread that pay throughout the summer. The money paid in the summer is money earned during the 182 days worked.

  • bobthebuilder

    Its a yearly salary…

  • Lilbooms

    Contracts are for the school year, which starts with teacher in-service days a couple of days before students start and ends with teacher in-service days usually the day after the students are done. I know at least one teacher friend whose district gives them the option of being paid during the school year, or spread out over 12 months- obviously, most people would take the 12 month option.

  • Mike

    Had to get a bit of a chuckle from the Democrat divide and conquer routine. To be honest, I’m not all that concerned about the lost days of school. Realistically, there probably wouldn’t be much quality education since most of the subject matter would have been covered by that time of the year. With that said, there is a realistic dollar amount that reasonable people should consider. I know it makes some people blow a gasket, but since tax payer money is on the line we should consider the obligation to the students and the tax payer.

    I also love when you read this article, you will notice that NO solutions are offered. The only thing this rag does is scoff at the idea of testing and evaluating. Have we lost sight of the fact that public school education is supposed to be about the academic outcome of children?

  • gregmild

    Thanks for the feedback. I’ll make it more explicit for you — stop the testing insanity that is sucking creative thinking out of our education system and let teachers guide our children to learn skills beyond the filling in of bubbles and the notion of simply providing a “correct answer” on a test. Free up our children to understand that the process of solving problems is way more important than achieving arbitrary point totals on once-a-year exams — especially for children who need to grow up curious about the world. Children deserve the opportunity to explore things in the world, not grow up trying to always get “the right answer”.

  • Mike

    Unfortunately, when we “let teachers guide our children” without checks and balances in place, we had children that were either passed on because they were athletically gifted OR were passed on because they were too much of a behavioral problem. In addition, taking remedial classes once people graduated from high school was becoming all to much the norm.

    I don’t believe the present process is perfect. BUT, it is better than what I had. As a person who has an associate degree, two bachelors degrees and a masters degree, I struggled with the past process. Instead of making a complaint manifesto as this was…how about we come up with solutions?

    I’m sure that all that are on here are concerned about the kids. What I don’t like is the arguments that are just concerned about political infighting such as this article. I’m willing to listen to anyone who has a GOOD solution.

  • becca

    The data states that retaining a child doesn’t make things better.

    If this current system is better than what you had Mike, then I am truly sorry for you. I am in my mid 50s – we had no testing like we currently do. There was a beginning of the year and end of the year test to measure student growth. Teachers used the test information to help the child and guide instruction – the purpose of a test. It wasn’t used to demonize teachers and penalize districts.

    No one in the private university that I attended had to take “remedial” classes. The difference between then and now for one is no testing overload as now.

    My first suggestion is to stop spending ALL this money on testing and give it back to the schools so that they can create the programs that are needed or spend it for things that are needed in their district. Let the standardized test be used to guide student instruction – as it should be.

    My district would benefit from having access to healthcare and mental health care in all the buildings.

  • wetsu

    What is your suggestion?

  • Nathanial Poling

    I am with you on reducing the testing if you agree to weaken the union protecting bad teachers. The Waiting for Superman documentary was eye opening on this subject. While we are at it, why are we paying all teachers the same based on tenure only… better teachers should be paid more not only because they have been around forever.

  • Ronald J

    First off, I thought it was inferential that if you eliminate testing and save money and teacher time that education improves.

    Secondly, you are spot on that it is about the academic outcome of the children. Standardized testing has been repeatedly shown to measure the quality of your zip code and not your cognitive ability.

    So if we didn’t have to waste time and money on tests that reinforce your socio-economic status, thats more time that I can devote to improving the academic outcome of children.

    The real waste of tax payer dollar comes from a legislature that likes to be outraged at waste… while being the chief proponent of it.

    BTW… where was this outrage when the Governor asked the legislature to go from 3 snow days back to 5 snow days in the Governor’s first winter in office? They went right ahead with this with NO outrage of two days of pay without work!

  • Mike

    Please see my above comment. This IS about the kids and not about political party. Articles such as this are garbage without solutions. The author should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Ronald J

    Again, if it was about the kids, why did the GOP increase calamity days from three to five? There was no outrage then, why is there now?

    And if it is really about the kids, shouldn’t they make the time up too? In the 90s my school once went five extra days to make up for bad weather beyond the five given. No waiver was given then.

    This is totally about politics. Once side loathes public education and teachers.

  • becca

    Sadly, many teachers voted for Kasich because he promised to increase snow days from 3 days to 5 days. The only reason why this waiver is making its way thru the legislature is hoping that those same teachers will once again vote for him.

  • Natalie

    Teachers- DO NOT vote for Kasich again! Simple!

  • anaon

    Since when has the quality of your zipcode NOT been an indicator of intelligence and success? This translates into the environment you provide for your children and it does impact their success in life don’t be naïve. If you can’t provide for children, and make sure that you have the time to educate them by example, you shouldn’t be having them.

  • EHRose

    If the state legislature was closed for the day due to the weather would the representatives be willing to have their pay docked for the day?

  • super_teacher

    LIVID does not even touch my reaction to this!!!!! Being a teacher, I’m actually waaaay too busy to address this as it should be addressed, but I’ll just toss out a few brief comments. First, the AUDACITY of a freaking politician who puts in a fraction of the time working that I do as a teacher!!! Are you kidding me??? Second, I have put in countless extra hours grading the blizzard packs (around 450-480, that’s 2 lessons per day per student) that had to be done to account for three of our missed days. Third, when our district opened our new middle school seven years ago, those of us teaching there had our day extended by 45 minutes without one penny more added to our salary. Do the math, that’s 45 minutes every day, five days a week for 36 weeks, that’s a total of 135 hours a month, of unpaid, but required, work every one of those seven years, so to date that would be almost an entire additional school year! Can you say “shafted?” Fourth, our district has ALWAYS put in a longer day than the minimum required, so why does that not count for anything when these LAZY politicians are whining about “paying teachers not to work.” Five, how many extra hours do most teachers put in every day/week anyway, just to try to keep up with all the extra crap we now have to do? And six, I don’t even have to mention the ridiculous amount of time devoted to the “one size fits all” testing. Which, by the way, why are we, as teachers, expected to individualize all our instruction for every student in our classes, but those who think they know it all force everyone to take the same “one size fits all” test???? Brilliant. Really? Oh, and adding make-up days after the OAA, at the end of the year, is another brilliant move. Those kids have heard all year about how important it is to work hard and do your best on the test. Well, after that test, these kids are DONE. They are as sick of it as their teachers are, and they are mentally drained and just want to be outside playing in the warm weather, not stuck inside some classroom because some politicians thought it wasn’t fair for them and their teachers to miss a few extra days because of bad weather. At that point, teachers, then, are merely babysitters. That’s the reality of it.

  • bobthebuilder

    Works 36 wks. Gets paid for 52. Sounds like a deal to me…

  • Nalajane

    You’re an ignorant person, bobthebuilder. You should keep your mouth closed unless you know what you’re talking about. You have never done your job, so don’t presume to know all about it. You are what is wrong with our country. All you are doing is attempting to piss teachers off. Guess what? Many of us deal with students who have attitudes a lot worse than yours on a regular basis. We are not phased by your poor attitude, or your lack of grammar and incomplete sentences. Also, you apparently have an issue with comprehension, as many posts by different individuals have already explained the concept of how a teachers’ pay is structured.

  • bobthebuilder

    Yet you can’t even write yourself… Sad, guess you should have saved your college $$$. Proof read before you chastise…yet I still make more than the all so lofty educators I know.. A teacher’s pay is structured on a yearly salary at which is not really a year. I get it..Even with my non education degree I know that much…Maybe get a part time job at a daycare if the need is there financially..You can babysit my kids while you grade papers and we go out..

  • super_teacher

    You may or may not make more $$ than I do, I don’t really care. The point is you’re on here bashing teachers, I never mentioned your job or what you do. Because you want to run your ignorant (read “lack of knowledge”) mouth about how great teachers have it and that we should just shut up and do our job, I have invited you to spend a month doing what I do on a daily basis. Funny how we never see people like you taking us up on any of these offers. I’m sick of people like you who “think” they know everything talking about teachers like we’re some pampered princesses who do nothing but play with kids 9 months out of the year. You don’t know anything. “You can’t handle the truth!” to quote a popular movie. Your kids are probably the ones not doing their schoolwork and disrupting the rest of the class. Oh, and by the way, speaking of income, I have a wonderful husband who, like me, is very hard working and does make more than I do, but he gladly hands over his check every week. And he KNOWS how stressful, time consuming, and difficult a teacher’s job is.

  • super_teacher

    And, FYI, I think teaching has become such an abused profession in this country, that I told my own children (who are extremely intelligent honor graduates) that if they chose to become teachers I would NOT help them in any way with their college education.

  • bobthebuilder

    Again you chose that profession!!!! I never said teachers have it great!! Your grasping for straws. I never said I wanted to be a teacher, if I did I would have…As far as ignorance, I fail to see how choosing a career that I enjoy and provides for my family as ignorant. While you chose one that you wouldn’t even have your kids follow…I guess ignorance is bliss…Then you go on and attack my child and how she is. Really?? But alas, she goes to private school for this exact reason. Better teaching…Glad you are retiring soon, as you seem unfit to teach as you are now…and as far as our checks go, they are deposited into an account for our family…no need to hand it over..

  • Natalie

    Seriously, are you the governor? Your attitude is poor.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Didn’t even vote for him…I am a taxpayer, who is fed up with the inefficient, sub-par educators that are allowed to keep their jobs year after year. In my mind they make all the good teachers look bad…If their students can’t pass simple tests of knowledge, then they should be put on probation and then fired. Like any other job out there.

  • andrea123

    I would agree.

  • andrea123

    I don’t think he is ignorant. I think more pent up with frustration. From reading all the posts, his child isn’t even taught by a public school teacher. His opinions may not all be correct but do have some valid points. Our school system as a nation has slipped off its once high pedestal…

  • Big Jim

    There is a simple solution. Vote out the GOP in the state capitol.
    Why in the world anyone that works for a living vote for these idiout is beyond me. They are NOT for ANYONE that holds a regular job.

    WORK UNION-LIVE BETTER,…………I DO

  • Nathanial Poling

    talk to the teachers in Wisconsin, the Republican Governor up there made tough choices and it saved teaching jobs, get out of the union propaganda manual and think and vote for yourself on occasion

  • Buddy Pinkham

    I wonder how many of THEM could actually pass the tests!

  • Anon

    I agree the testing is dumb. The teachers should be paid for calamity days. That being said, teachers are the biggest group of whiners I have ever seen. Go back through and read your comments. If it’s so bad go find a job in another industry.

  • duckmonkeyman

    Likewise if teachers have it so great, you should become one and stop bashing.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    No thanks…

  • bobthebuilder

    Very self serving also;)

  • ArgyleEuphoria

    If teachers want to be treated like professionals, they need to start acting like it. In no other industry do salaried employees get paid extra for extra time worked. Any other salaried professional work nights and weekends without extra pay. Teachers want to be paid like fast food employees–for each extra hour or day. Teachers are fairly compensated. $50k for 8 months work, 7 hour work day, 2 percent step increases (in addition to annual COLAs), tuition reimbursement, excellent insurance, and a lifetime annuity after 30 years (can retire at 55 while everyone else has to work till 70). Quit whining about a few extra days–be the professionals you claim to be.

  • duckmonkeyman

    See my comment below and learn something before teacher bashing. I take home $22,000 per year clear. I work 6:30am till 5pm, then remain on call via cell till 9-10pm for students. I spend outside time developing ppts and lessons or working long hours on the new state teacher evaluation mandates. I get no tuition reimbursement, work during snow days. There is no lifetime annuity and I cannot retire till at least 65 under the new rules. I worked years in private sector but my social security earned during those years will be drastically reduced due to offsets. My insurance offering are neatly identical to the private sector.

    Which begs the question, if you have it so bad and teachers so great – why aren’t you teaching? Quit your job, spend $30,000 to get licensed and show us all how it is done.

  • ArgyleEuphoria

    Not bashing, just facts. (1) The $50k number is an average–most teachers salary schedules top out at $70k plus. Your $22k reflects lack of seniority, not penury. Don’t worry, you’ll get there. Plus, most private sector college grads don’t start out much better. (2) Your hours? Big deal. All professionals work at least that much. I’m not impressed. (3) You are flat wrong on insurance. Max teachers pay in Ohio is 20% premiumwhich is rare. In private sector, you pay 30-50%. (4) Pension reform in 2026 allows retirement at 60 with 35 years. Lifetime pay at 77% of top 5 years. Plus right to retire/rehire and double dip. This is a huge benefit. (5) I don’t want to teach. I’m not saying teachers are rich or overpaid. Not a teacher basher. But to pretend teachers are not fairly paid is laughable. It is a good job that guarantees a comfortable middle class life. (6) Forgot to mention TENURE–which means you basically need to commit gross negligence to get fired.

  • becca

    Tenure doesn’t guarantee you a job – it guarantees you due process in the event that it is needed. It also means that you have met the criteria of your district to be awarded that status. Tenured teachers can and have been fired – with the proper documentation. No one anywhere should be fired w/out proper documentation.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    You shouldn’t need a bunch of documentation to fire an inefficient employee…That’s part of the problem. Unions protecting bad employees..The auto unions did it for years and look where it got them.

  • super_teacher

    Don’t know where you’re getting your numbers, but my husband, who is not a teacher, has always had insurance benefits equal to, and part of the time better than mine as a teacher, always. He has NEVER had to pay 30-50%.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Its public record in ohio. Thanks josh mandel!! Even though I can’t stand him

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Just looked up 8 of the teachers I know personally , and the lowest salary of the group is $54k a yr. Top is $68k and they are all under the age of 38…so teachers are also liars…

  • bobthebuilder

    If you only make 22k a year it’s your own fault…I made that at 24 working in a factory job…Which taught me what a “hard job” was…

  • Natalie

    I congratulate you on your 22k a year factory job with minimal education. If you think teaching is so easy then go to college, get our here and jump right in.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Who said I had a minimal education?? I was in school at the time. Yes I worked and went to school. Amazing huh…Its called not wanting to be in debt after college….

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Off to bed , as I have to teach a SolidWorks group to my fellow minimally educated co-workers. Then I have an early meeting , with a group of gentlemen from a few BILLION dollar corporation, for their new product line which we will be doing…Maybe we’ll go golfing…

  • super_teacher

    Amen! If teachers really did have it as great as these people keep claiming, they would be banging down the doors of the schools to come and teach. But look around…I don’t see any of them here.

  • Guest

    You need to brush up on your information because everything you stated is flat out wrong.

    First – you can’t draw your pension until you’re 65 and have 35 yrs. – so no more retiring at 55 after 2015. $50K is not entry level pay – that is someone w/ Masters and 10-20 yrs into their career. Depending on where you work, some 1st yr teachers are only making $25K annually. I would say the avg first year salary is $30 – $35K annually.

    Teachers DO NOT get COLA adjustments. They do get step increases which is based on an index that varies from district to district. That also stops at yr 15. At yr 20, longevity pay can go into effect, and that varies from district to district also depending on the contract.

    Maybe you need to have a conversation w/ a teacher and find out exactly how many total hours they put in during the course of one calendar year – School’s in session for 9 months, so don’t know where you get that 8 month mess.

  • becca

    You need to brush up on your information because everything you stated is flat out wrong.

    First – you can’t draw your pension until you’re over 60 and have 35 yrs. – so no more retiring at 55 after 2015. $50K is not entry level pay – that is someone w/ Masters and 10-20 yrs into their career. Depending on where you work, some 1st yr teachers are only making $25K annually. I would say the avg first year salary is $30 – $35K annually.

    Teachers DO NOT get COLA adjustments. They do get step increases which is based on an index that varies from district to district. That also stops at yr 15. At yr 20, longevity pay can go into effect, and that varies from district to district also depending on the contract.

    Maybe you need to have a conversation w/ a teacher and find out exactly how many total hours they put in during the course of one calendar year – School’s in session for 9 months, so don’t know where you get that 8 month mess

  • bobthebuilder

    Your numbers are way low…we can see what our teachers earn in Ohio…I know two who clear 55k after only 5 yrs…

  • super_teacher

    Better do a little more research. Don’t pick the two highest paid areas to make your declarations. It takes teachers at least 20 or more years and a master’s degree to make that kind of money where we live.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Its nowhere near the two highest paid..

  • Beth

    I have a MS degree and 12 years of experience. I do not make $50,000 a year. My school’s pay scale stops going up after TWENTY YEARS and it’s barely over $50,000 when it stops! I have been on a pay freeze for three years because we have no money for our step increases. When we did have them, they were more like 1%, not 2%. I have to work 35 years before I can retire, not 30. My “excellent” insurance keeps changing due to less money for the district. I have a large deductible, just like everyone else. We do not get full tuition reimbursement. At most, my school gives 50%, and that depends on how many people are splitting the funds. I have to take classes to renew my license, so it’s at least 50% on me to pay for those credit hours that I have to take. I have to pay to renew my licence ($200), which is not reimbursed. I don’t work seven hours a day. I’m at school for about 9 hours most days, sometimes ten. I work from home every weekend. People seem to think you walk in, teach, and walk back out. You can’t exactly plan for instruction while instructing. I create my own curriculum because there is no money to purchase any materials for me. I do just as much work in 8 months as a lot of other people do in twelve. I’m also not paid for days not worked. It’s stated right in our contract and our yearly calendar. Our “Recess Days” are days not worked and not paid. My salary is spread out over the calendar year, but we are paid for days worked only. It’s really a futile task to try to explain it to someone who has probably not been in a classroom since being a student. I should really stop bothering to try.

  • http://www.mrbigler.com/ Jeff Bigler

    This is a false premise. Teachers are paid a fixed salary, divided over the school year. The contract specifies the number of school days worked, hours per school day, curriculum to be taught, duties, etc. It doesn’t matter how many days you divide that salary over; it’s the same amount of money.

    If teachers are expected to teach 180 school days, their salaries should be based on 180 school days. The legislature is free to change the number of days of instruction, provided that they adjust salaries accordingly and provided that teachers are still willing to sign the contract.

  • bobthebuilder

    I say cut the salaries to reflect 36 work weeks…

  • super_teacher

    You’re so clueless. The salaries have always reflected 36 work weeks.

  • bobthebuilder

    They reflect a yearly salary…..

  • Lilbooms

    Look at a job posting for a teacher or a teacher contract. It is for the SCHOOL year, not the calendar year. That means, in most districts, August to June. They may have elected to spread their paychecks over 12 months, but their earnings are for the school year.

  • super_teacher

    Yeah, a school year, but they just made the decision to spread the pay out over the calendar year.

  • Kelly Hunter

    For all to know, teachers are not paid for snow days. We stretch our
    pay, believe it or not we do not get paid extra for not being in school.
    Is this a Republican thing? Would the old Republican (Lincoln) agree
    with this? Most likely not. But this new party that they call themselves
    Republicans, are NOT. They need to go back to school or at least spend
    time in a classroom and see if they could do our job, as teachers, with
    the pay that we receive. People most teachers have more education than a
    CEO and receive less pay. So the people down at the house, back off and
    leave my hard working money alone!

  • bobthebuilder

    Teachers are the biggest whiners in the nations workforce…They bitch about everything….If you don’t work you don’t get paid.Period!!! You only work 185 days a year anyways…If I don’t work I have two options…A. use a vacation day. B.lose a days pay

  • Frank Cathey Jr.

    In Tennessee, and I would assume other states, teachers are not paid extra for snow days. The weather days are built into the work year, and added onto the minimum days required, so in reality if there are no snow days out of school, teachers (and all certified staff) are working overtime for no pay.

  • jabman549 .

    ……and perhaps if you were all doing your jobs to begin with, the students would already be ready to take those tests and we wouldn’t have to spend $123 million for you guys “not to instruct”. This article is clearly written to get you guys to vote for democrats by rallying the troops with a common cause. Please wake up and try to read these article a little more objectively. The title alone should have made you avoid the link, but it didn’t , did it?

  • Judith Di Fonzo

    Our School District builds 4 snow days into the calander. If school gets cancelled 4 times, we keep the last day of school that was planned. If all 4 days aren’t used, then the last day of school happens earlier – by the number of days that weren’t used. There is no cost to doing that. This year we used more and we need to make up days, so time off is being cancelled (we took it already due to snow) and the last day of school is now later.

    You’re right about the cost of testing. Our schools have an average of 17 days per grade for standardized tests. This wouldn’t include weekly math or spelling tests and most likely doesn’t include AP Exams. Some students get extra time because they are in special education. Proctors need to be brought in to do this. Sometimes, they are from outside the school district so teachers can be in the classroom with those who don’t have extra time. There’s a training for how to correctly proctor a test so all teachers and outside proctors need to attend that training. I’m not sure if that happens in Ohio, but it happens in neighboring Pennsylvania.

    With all the mandated testing, I only see those who sell tests to schools making out. I’m sure that teachers would like to do more days of instruction and less days of testing as well as preparing students for these tests.

  • anaon

    We don’t need teachers. Buy every kid a computer and make them sit in front of it reading and responding to questions all day with a 10 minute break every hour. Monitor them. Test them. Kids should be speaking and reading, not just English but several languages, by the time they are 4. Lunch is salad and a protein shake. Enough of this crap.

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Well , some people have a dedication to their job. Your husband does not, unless hes paid. .. I for one get calls/texts some nights, 1am , 4 am, doesn’t matter. If I’m up I answer if not they wait. A job is not all about money. Thats what is wrong with this country now. No job pride. Just $$$. Which is sad. This whole topic was based on how our gov’t wasted $$$ on tests and educational days. Its really not about that. Its your profession/union just trying to find someone to blame if kids fail…During the neighboring cities strike last year( yes st wrongsville) , it opened my eyes to alot of things I really never thought about as a taxpayer…Not for the better…

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Spoken from a true union member point of view…So only do what you’re paid for? Not one bit more…sounds like dedication to me. Oh sorry its 4 o’clock I gotta leave…sounds like someone who is first in line at the time clock everyday. Im sure he also never did any of his company business on the side while at his employers expense…lol…walked up hill both ways to school Im sure also…

  • bobcantbekeptdown

    Also, you do not work with him. So it”s what he tells you. I can say the same. In the last twenty years I’ve missed 1 day of work. For surgery for my daughter. Doubt many people can say that…

  • ricky

    The K-test will take 4 hours per student starting in Sept. Teachers must adminster the test DURING school hours – so many kids have NEVER had a school experience and the classroom teacher must test indivdually and keep the other 20-25 kids engaged in learning activities. It will take until the end of Nov. to test all students. So, who will be teaching? The formar KRAW-L was excellent – I have no idea why we needed to fix something that was not broken and worked well to provide teachers with a baseline. This new test is a grave injustice to the children. I’d very sad that a 5 year old has to start school in such chaos and rigid testing. So, K teachers will certainly lose more than 2 days of instruction – do the math.

  • Andy

    There are a lot of crybaby teachers out there. What a bunch of whiners. If it’s so bad leave the field and get a real job. What? You don’t want to work during the summer? I guess things aren’t that bad after all.

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