The Dispatch and other media outlets are reporting that the House GOP leadership is DENYING that the reason two members of the House Commerce and Labor Committee had anything to do with the votes:

“House GOP leaders said the changes were made because the two need to focus on the Finance Committee, which will start budget hearings next week.”

I don’t know what’s a worse assignment for a Republican in a swing district facing re-election next year: being on the committee deciding SB 5 or Kasich’s budget.

Meanwhile, Shannon Jones continues to just make stuff up about SB 5 in politically tone deaf stunning fashion:

"I’m not sure the 360,000 people who negotiate in collective bargaining are the most impacted by this. I would submit that all of Ohio’s taxpayers are impacted by this legislation.”

Jones apparently missed Sunday’s Dispatch that found that two of the major components of SB 5 would result in very little savings at all for over 80% of the local government entities and schools it studied.  There is no question, none, that public union workers are going to take a larger hit than taxpayers are going to see in “savings.”  It’s a mathematical certainty since the base of public union employees is smaller than the tax base.  For Jones to suggest otherwise is stunningly ignorant.

And will these taxpayers see lower taxes?  Of course not.  Remember Governor Kasich says SB 5 is “necessary” to allow these local government entities to deal with the massive budget cuts coming their way next week when Kasich finally has to reveal his budget.

The Dispatch article suggests that there’s enormous pressure in the House Republican caucus to take SB 5 even further.  There’s a complicated political calculus involved.  The rumors are that the House is all but certain to replace SB 5’s provision that allows the government entity’s legislative body to break any impasse and instead create a judicial process that asks a court to decide (this will, of course, have two unintended consequences, too: 1) it runs the risk of clogging our already over capacity judicial system; 2) further politicizes the judicial system at the local level in ways never before imagined.)  That might, just might, allow the GOP to pick up both Seitz and Grendell on a Senate vote to approve whatever changes the House makes.  I’d be surprised if they haven’t gotten a commitment to that effect already, in fact.

However, if it doesn’t get both and the House Republicans go too far, they could lose LaRose and Gillmor on a future Senate vote to approve the House’s changes.  Given that the House is scheduled to hold at least three weeks of hearings, the House must pass a bill that a majority of the Senate will vote to accept their changes.  If they do not, then the bill goes into a conference committee and the bill cannot be signed into law in time to prevent any referendum from being on the ballot in 2012, not 2011.

My hunch is that the House GOP has figured they’ll probably pick up Seitz or Grendell or both on such a vote by creating a judicial review process to resolve government/labor negotiation stalemates.  The question is do they have any concerns that they might lose more than they might gain.

At least one member of the committee, State Rep. Ron Young (R) indicates he wants to go even further in limiting the amount of unused sick and vacation time union employees can cash out at retirement.  Still lurking in the shadows is the Americans for Prosperity changes to make state government “open union shops” and kneecap their ability to take money for political donations.  Neither of which has anything to do with the budget, but is solely designed to make it harder for organized labor to have a voice in the political process in response to SB 5.

They can kneecap the unions all the want it may not matter come next November:

"It’s a dark time in Ohio," said Mike Castle of Hilliard, a Columbus firefighter. "I voted for the man (Kasich), and it brings tears to my eyes to say that."

Not enough paid television ads in the world is going to get some of these folks to ever vote Republican again in their lifetime.

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  • Amber

    If they say it, it’s true, right??

  • Anonymous

    I’m skeptical of the claims… Remember that the Senate GOP kept saying they also had a comfortable margin to pass the bill in the Senate just two weeks ago.

  • Amber

    I’m sure they don’t remember saying that 😉

  • Anonymous

    It is incredibly tough to expect a Republican to vote against a new Governor of their own party this early in his term. Second, there are several Republicans who truly believe in it. And third, defeat by referendum is by no means a sure thing.

  • guest

    The last quote from the firefighter is so true. I’ve considered myself a Republican for the last 20 years and have voted that way. I’ve always had an open mind when looking at opposing issues. I’m pretty liberal on social issues. I liked George W. Bush a lot.

    So I voted in this last wave of clowns without a lot of research, I apologize for that. Little did I know it was their goal to destroy my way of life. When Kasich referred to the cop who gave him a ticket as an idiot I knew it was going to be bad. The cop said nothing to him that they don’t say to everybody who gets a ticket, it’s common procedure.

    Anyways, my point is every single guy I work with has vowed to never vote republican again…and I work with a large amount of people, under a thousand but still close to it.

    This SB5 thing has been a real eye opener for all of us. They certainly like to use us at campaign time, after that your on your own buddy.

  • Anonymous

    Unfortunately, too many people don’t have time to pay attention to what candidates are saying and go by general impressions. I know some people like to point fingers and blame them, but people are so overwhelmed and stressed, it’s hard to keep up. During the campaign, Kasich said he would “break the back” of the teachers unions. That’s definitively hostile. I think it would have been foolish to think he was going to stop with teachers.

    That “idiot” comment revealed Kasich’s privileged mindset. When the cop said he needed to appear in court or there would be a warrant for his arrest, he was clearly reciting a boilerplate statement required for every such traffic stop. I think it’s interesting that Kasich took it so personally. He seems very thin-skinned and has this exceptional mindset, like rules don’t apply to him.

  • guest

    I missed the comment about the Teacher’s Union. That definitely would’ve been a clue ! But you are absolutely correct, the statement about appearing in court is standard procedure. Nearly everybody gets the same exact speech, if not, the cop just forgot to say it.

    He was still outraged about it what, a year later? After pleading guilty to the offense.

    I guess the point of my comment was I think a referendum on SB5 could pass, lots of people are ready to vote against it. These Tea Party types are dwindling in numbers… a couple people that I know who were diehard Beck fans have seen the light and turned their back on his nonsense. I assume that’s happening statewide.

  • Heck39

    Also, when they talk about “taxpayers” they don’ t mean the vast majority of taxpayers. They mean the connected corporate interests who benefit from $7 billion in annual tax loopholes, and the richest Ohioans who receive almost all of the benefit of tax cuts. Who even noticed the huge tax cuts over the last several years in Ohio? Most of us didn’t even notice it, because we hardly got enough in tax cuts to fill up a tank of gas. But for the rich, they got enough to buy a Mercedes. And of course, in the middle of a budget crisis they are fighting for a new loophole on estates worth over $300k.

    All of their talk about “taxpayers” is used to disguise who they are really protecting and helping. They are literally taking money from working families to pay for tax loopholes and tax cuts for the rich, and selling it as helping “all those poor taxpayers”.

  • BiscuitVW

    All I have to say Is it will be a BIG PARTY TIME in Ohio when We Vote all these IDIOTS OUT!!!! We will show them all what the People want when this is put on the Ballot and the people vote it down!!!!!

  • Herc

    It’s the whole “trickle down” fallacy. I believe that most legistlators who support those kinds of tax laws really truely believe they are doing a good thing, thinking that giving more money and freedom to big corporations to spend their money results in more jobs for the middle class. However, the rest of us know this has not and does not work. The money typically gets used for nothing more than improving their stock position, so they can report bigger and bigger earnings to gain more investors, and gain even MORE money. I would like to think that most legislators have their heart in the right place, they’re just very misguided and poorly researched. Then there’s people like Kasich, who gives me the impression that his heart is NOT in the right place, he is only thinking about himself and his wealthy friends. Individuals like him know how to spin things to not only fool some of the electorate, but his own colleagues who are just old fashioned and want nothing more than to trust and respect him because of the position he’s in, even when he’s flat out wrong. I think we have yet to be presented with solid actual FACTS to support his position. The fact that he’s had to rely on flawed math and sometimes complete lies is very telling that his motivation is not so pure, and some of the others are just sheep.

  • David from Hilliard

    I posted this on the thread about the FOP rescinding its endorsement of Kevin Bacon, but perhaps some won’t see that, so I’ll repeat it:

    I was at a banquet Saturday night and next to me was a current Cols Police officer with 17 years on the force and his wife. I asked what they thought of Kasich’s efforts to end collective bargaining, and they went on for 10 minutes how it was an attack on the middle class, etc. The officer’s wife then said, “And what’s ironic is, we both voted for him.”

    What can you say about such stupidity? Maybe John Kasich didn’t out and out say he was going to do away with public employees collective bargaining when he ran for Governor – but all you had to do was listen to the man and look at his record as a legislator to know he would be no friend no labor.

    I think it was here on Plunderbund that I read over 1/3 of all union households in Ohio voted for Kasich over Strickland. I can’t imagine any union member – even if they’re in the private versus public sector – being happy with what Kasich is doing.

    It’s an old cliche but true – you reap what you sow.

  • Greg Soper

    West Park Guy The reason is simple money and to be assigned chairmanships. Unless your a veteran of Columbus(Grendell, Oelslager)you need the money and power to win future elections, you don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

  • Greg Soper

    Are we to correct to assume Ron Young will vote no because it does not go far enough? The other person voting no Kristina Roegner or Todd McKerney? I still have 8-7 to pass 55-44 overall.

    The question is can they do this given three weeks of hearings will be on it.

  • Greg Soper

    Might explain by Senator Jones is the only sponsor of Sb5

  • Greg Soper

    That is the way it is supposed to work- Give the wealthy the money to buy cars and the need for sales and service increases. However, it never works like this because there is no need for the wealthy to spend-they just bank what they have.

    I believe if tax breaks are given, then there has to be teeth, if you ar small business owner hire people or lose your credit.

  • guest

    wow David, way to welcome the new converts, calling them stupid. Gee I wonder why there were suspicious in the first place…

  • “I think it was here on Plunderbund that I read over 1/3 of all union households in Ohio voted for Kasich over Strickland. I can’t imagine any union member – even if they’re in the private versus public sector – being happy with what Kasich is doing.”

    Well, they probably won’t be voting “R” again anytime soon. Anyone not in a coma need only glance around to see what these immoral hellspawn are doing…..they’re screwing Americans at a pace that would make even rabbits blush.

  • Somebody

    I too am a lifelong Republican. But after hearing that speech, and his comments about cops, I cannot support him again. I was at the Senate hearing on SB5 and I listened to the tea partiers and Republican Senators speak of how public workers had this false sense of entitlement. Yet it seems after hearing his speech that Kasich is the one who believes he is entitled to absolute power. This wrecking ball mentality they have toward rushing this bill through makes it painfully clear that this isn’t about balancing a budget (they have gay and lesbian marriage in this bill) and they aren’t open to suggestions. I have done some serious reflecting upon my political beliefs and I do not embrace this return to extreme conservatism that they are so emphatically pushing. I will register as an independent in the next go round.

  • Tarfam325

    The difference is, every other person who does not appear in court actually DOES have a warrant out for their arrest and has to pay a fine! Maybe if entitled jerks like our Governor didn’t think they were “above the law” and showed up in court and paid their fines, (instead of spouting off about police officers who are just doing their job) this State would be in a little better shape.

  • Tarfam325

    Let’s not wait 4 years to get this LIAR out of office. Seriously…going after teachers, police officers, firefighters and nursing homes… and then having the NERVE to quote SCRIPTURE in the process saying, “Today has enough trouble of its own…” HE has not even BEGUN to see the results of the TROUBLE he is causing. CAN we IMPEACH him or start a PETITION to remove him from office???? If ever there was a time to pursue something like this…it is NOW!!!!

  • guest

    Funny thing…put police in a merit based system…what does that mean? There will be many more “idiot cops” out there. No more warnings. Turn without making a complete stop, drive when it is sprinking without your winshield wipers on, going 3 miles over the speed limit…you are going to get a ticket!

  • Tpiteo65

    I’m sorry that Mike and the others that voted for Kasich and his fellow republicans are having second thoughts, but what the hell were they thinking. Unless you are making several million dollares a year the repubs are not looking out for his or the other middle class people in the state. Maybe this was what was needed to wake the middle class up to what the repubs truly stand for. It sure is not about the working man.

  • marie

    When I hear any union member say they voted for this scumbag, it brings tears to my eyes.

  • Fotogirlcb2002

    Hey Plunder guys — any head count as to who is friend and who is foe in the house yet?
    With 99 of them I knows gonna be tough to figure out — are any of the pubs with us ?

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