Just a quick follow-up to Brian’s earlier post(s) about seven Republican Senators who have not committed to supporting SB 5:

It sounds like we have an 8th.

I heard today that State Senator Tim Grendell‘s staff has been told that he will not vote for Senate Bill 5 in its current form.

 
  • Fotogirlcb2002

    my response from his office says same “not in current written form”

  • pragmatic_one

    Basically you are stating that the misery that has been brought upon the middle class in the private sector – elimination of pensions, erosion of pay and benefits, etc…needs to be spread to everyone. Misery, after all, loves company.

    Don’t bother looking at study after study that states government workers are not overcompensated, just keep stating as a fact that they are. Remain jealous of the pensions some in the public sector get, while refusing to fight for a better situation for yourself, trusting in the “free market” or some 401(k) shenanigans to provide for you in retirement. Keep on truckin’ down that road, even though it is becoming increasingly obvious that there actually is no road anymore.

    The middle class is not a natural outgrowth of capitalism, it had to be fought for inch by inch, mainly by unions. But Fox and talk radio apparently have twisted your mind so much that you now blame unions for your own demise. That’s some mighty strong propoganda they got flowin’ over there.

  • hereby nominated for comment of the day

  • Xx

    So I guess CEOs making tens of millions of dollars (even when they suck) while you have to eat mac & cheese and ramen noodles to make ends meet is okey dokey with you.

  • Fumanchoo

    In what parallel universe can everyone in the workforce continue to get paid for 20, 40, or 50 years – with other people’s money – after they stop producing the goods or services that they produced? If it can’t work for everyone, then why should we force the middle class to support this utopian fantasy for a select group? Maybe so they can point and say “look it works!”?

    It doesn’t work – not even for part of the workforce. If you can’t get past the math, then maybe some fairy dust and unicorn tears will help union types get over the pain of hard realities. They seem to have plenty saved up from the 08 election.

  • Fumanchoo

    Corporations, like it or not, do not exist for the purpose of employing the maximum number of individuals, at the maximum possible wage, with lifetime pay and benefits after a certain period of time. Yes – the percentage of executive pay is outrageous. But even if you mandated a limit on CEO pay, it wouldn’t come close to fixing the unfunded obligations of these public union employees. There is no CEO in the public sector to blame. The equation simply does not work.

  • Fumanchoo

    Yeah who IS going to pay for that? ME? My neighbors? Who is going to pay for OUR expenses then? You? The teacher unions?

  • Rbert2005sky

    So mandate that everyone has to give theirAmerican hard earned money to those who don’t actually work for their own success and deny everyone the choice to actually give from the heart and pat everyone on the back for halfheartedly giving. Giving comes from the heart and if you don’t give ful heartedly there is no reason to give other than self justification and not being held accountable for anything you don’t do. Which is actually truly care for others…hmmmm, no thanks…it starts with one just as it did 2000 years ago…Jesus

  • Rob

    So I assume you have an issue with corporate welfare, tax abatements, etc?

  • Rob

    Who’s going to pay for your kids to attend k-12 when the public no longer funds them?

  • Rob

    Public employees have a state pension funded under terms of their contract. It used to be bigger until Lehman plundered it.

  • Anonymous

    Um, public schools, police departments, state prisons, and fire departments arent’ charities!

  • Green Iris

    Many companies pay for advanced training for their workers. As employees gain knowledge, they become more efficient, and add responsibilities and tasks which benefit the company.
    I believe part of Kasich’s agenda is to have the state start paying the cost of training employees and no longer pay for retraining the unemployed for more advanced jobs. I’m sure you are opposed to this. Right??

  • Anonymous

    You’d better add Senator Daniels to the wobbly-support list. Here’s his quote from a town meeting in his district: “On Senate Bill 5, I will support reform in some fashion. Having said that, I hope that parties from all sides will come together and work to find a common ground. Otherwise, with or without changes, I am going to support Senate Bill 5 […] Is Senate Bill 5 the answer? I don’t know. But, I do know that some changes need made, and these decisions aren’t going to be easy ones.”

    Joining him was State Rep John Carey, who went further: “In its present form, I do not support the bill”

  • Anastasjoy

    Are you aware that that Jesus demanded that people give up their “hard-earned” money in order to feed the hungry, heal the sick, and take care of the poor? He wasn’t saying wait until giving comes from your heart; it was a mandate. And giving NEVER comes from the heart of those who can afford it and who didn’t actually work for their own success: the ultra-rich. You are free to believe your twisted, brainwashed, survival-of-the-fittest crap but don’t invoke the name of Jesus because he would call you on your crap.

  • Anastasjoy

    Also, public employees paid for their entire working career into their pension fund — and did NOT pay social security and are not eligible for it. So no one else’s money is paying for their pensions — but a lot of other peoples’ money will be paying for services to keep them out of abject poverty if the greedy wealthy are allowed to steal their pensions. They ARE the middle class, and a respectable pension they have funded for themselves is NOT a “utopian fantasy for a select group”? You need to lose that brainwashed bitterness because the people who have pounded it into you are the ones taking your money from your pocket — not public sector workers.

  • Anastasjoy

    Actually, yes, fumanchoo — teachers ARE going to pay you and your neighbors, because THEY are the ones whose salaries provide the economic fuel for YOUR communities and YOUR jobs. Without the taxes on their solid middle-class jobs, YOUR streets would not be repaired and plowed, YOUR home wold not be protected by firefighters and police, and YOUR businesses would have no patrons. I don’t know what you do but I can pretty much guarantee that unless you are a corporate raider or hedge-fund manager one of the reasons you even have a job is because your community has a solid middle class of teachers, nurses, librarians, safety workers etc who circulate money in the community and who pay taxes.

  • Anonymous

    Ah, but defined benefit pensions DID work for most everyone, management as well as labor, for several years, until the 1990s. At that time, the private sector began replacing defined benefit pension plans with defined contribution plans or even no plans, and people like yourself let it happen.

    The demise of defined benefit pension plans lags just slightly behind the demise of private sector unions. Strange, isn’t it?

  • Anonymous

    The Republicans also want no middle class – just a select group of corporate brahmins like Johnny K. overseeing a vast group of minimum wage slaves.

    And clueless peeps like Fumanchoo are helpoing them achieve their goal.

  • Anonymous

    The Republicans also want no middle class – just a select group of corporate brahmins like Johnny K. overseeing a vast group of minimum wage slaves.

    And clueless peeps like Fumanchoo are helpoing them achieve their goal.

  • pragmatic_one

    Ahhh yes. The Jesus reference.

    First, I don’t quite understand who you mean by ‘those who don’t actually work for their own success’. Who are you referring to here? I suppose anybody who doesn’t have a private sector job?

    You paint such a nice picture. But private charity has always fallen woefully short in the face of the massive problems created by unemployment and poverty. The only place such a system works fairly well is in Utah, where Mormons are basically forced to tithe a certain amount of their money into what is basically a private welfare system – or be kicked out of the church – so it’s not really a voluntary system.

  • pragmatic_one

    The math of Ohio’s public pension system is fine. The changes they recommend – making people work 32 years instead of 30 and making slight changes to the calculations for determining the benifits will be enough to keep the fund solvent. Just as social security could very easily be fixed by raising the cutoff for contribution. But we can’t do that because we cannot tax our sacred wealthy populace as they are superior beings who simply cannot be bothered with trivial matters like national solvency. That is for the little people.

    You clearly do not understand how the pension fund works. Employees pay into it (a higher percentage than people pay into social security) and the state contributes (just as a private employer contributes to social security). The money is invested by the fund in various equities, bonds and such. There are strict rules governing the amounts of money that must be on hand. It is a good system and the money is managed conservatively by the handlers of the fund.

    I don’t understand why you hate it so much. Jealousy is the only reason I see.

  • Pingback: Senate Republicans may not have the votes to get SB 5 out of committee (unless they work out a deal.)()

  • kgrl

    I called Sen bacon’s office. They need a majority to pass. So, even a tie (6 to 6)would make it fail.

  • John_in_Cincinnati

    Well… I’m not union. No one in my immediate family is union. I pay 100% of my health insurance and I *adamantly* support folks’ right to collective bargaining. If state, county and city administrators have been so inept at negotiations that they’ve promises they can’t keep it’s time for new ones. Let’s not place the burden of our governments’ screw-ups on the backs of hard-working workers!

  • Anonymous

    My question is: why is someone in New Mexico crawling this site all day and telling us what we people in Ohio should be doing? Care to explain?

  • Anonymous

    See, I read those comments and said he would vote yes. I thought Carey was more clearer.

  • Anonymous

    What are you worried about? You don’t even live in the same time zone as we do.

  • Pavelkaj

    I just want to know why it is the union employees and their families are singled out here to pay the piper??? We aren’t driving around in Porsches or Lamborghinis. These unfunded obligations you speak of WERE fully funded until the CEOs and CFOs of your blessed corporations decided that 40% was not good enough and they wanted 400%, and got caught when the banks went in the toilet. SB 5 is not about money (in print), it’s about employee rights. No one put a gun to the Corp CEOs head when they “negotiated” the contracts that currently exist. Before China started undercutting everything we make here, everbody was happy. Now, in order the “breach the contract” with impunity, they have to get rid of the rules. Careful what you wish for; if this goes through, non-union pay scales are going to drop like a rock, too

  • Captain

    Yes, he was trolling from New Mexico and poof he is gone once called out. In the past decades I have learned that the republican zealots, their entire existence hinges on telling the rest of us how their self-serving narrow-minded propaganda is fact. Republicans like him cannot exist unless they are spewing their venom on others. New Mexico- thats classic

  • Anonymous

    You’re not aware of my thought, or the issues or history of my State. Thanks for visiting.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, taxpayers did pay for my law school education. I went to a public school… which means my tuition was kept lower with taxpayer support. I also received student loans which the interest was subsized while I attended there.

    The real issue that you’re dancing around is why should a bill be passed that declines to give a raise to teachers after they get their Masters, especially when it’s required during the teacher’s career.

  • Anonymous

    This isn’t Greece. Now you just being silly. You obvious don’t think for yourself. You’re just coming here an recycling the talking points you hear on talk radio and Fox News. Pity. Enjoy the New Mexico weather, sockpuppet.

  • Anonymous

    This isn’t Greece. Now you just being silly. You obvious don’t think for yourself. You’re just coming here an recycling the talking points you hear on talk radio and Fox News. Pity. Enjoy the New Mexico weather, sockpuppet.

  • Green Iris

    No it does matter. Just because it doesn’t fit your talking points doesn’t make it irrelevant.

    I know what the average teachers salary is. Underpaid. I couldn’t do what the average teacher does, and I tried. I bet 85% of the general
    population couldn’t either. Just curious: do you put in any time volunteering with a group of kids? Scouts, Sunday School, future conservatives of America? I’m just trying to ascertain if you have any point of reference on how difficult it is to guide a group of children.

  • Rob

    What doesn’t you understand about a “private” pension plan. The workers have money put into it a manner described in their contracts!! That money is then given out to retirees!!

    Also, medical care, at least for state teachers is hardly a small expense when the teachers retire. If you think they get the same benefits when they are retired and when they were active workers, you are grossly misinformed.

  • Rob

    Huh? House Republicans controlled the Ohio House for 14 years until 2008, when Democrats netted seven seats to seize control by a 53-46 advantage. Also, take a look who has been in the governors mansion. Hear of Voinovich? Taft?

    Get informed.

  • Rob

    Are you seriously comparing a doctors/lawyers compensation to that of a teacher?

    Also, airline mechanics need certification. The cost of a certification vs a masters program are hardly comparable. Also, teachers need to have lifetime learning to maintain their licensure.

  • Scott B.

    Jealousy?

    What do you call this in your own words!!!

    “we cannot tax our sacred wealthy populace as they are superior beings who simply cannot be bothered with trivial matters like national solvency. That is for the little people.”

    The question I must ask is…..why are you so Jealous of the so called “rich”? Hum?

  • Fotogirlcb2002

    thanks for the info — I find all this budget shortage stuff suspect
    especially when I see most have “r”s for governors
    theres a article on BuzzFlash.com I swear its like they are all cloned off one another

  • Jerome Saltsman

    You got the balls to throw rocks but not the stones to use your real name. How weak and sorry you are. It is precisely tea baggers like yourself that unions are galvanizing, and becoming stronger. Thanks, we appreciate that. And good luck with that non-union job. When you get fired for being on this blog rather than working, don’t come cry to the unions.

  • Jerome Saltsman

    You got the balls to throw rocks but not the stones to use your real name. How weak and sorry you are. It is precisely tea baggers like yourself that unions are galvanizing, and becoming stronger. Thanks, we appreciate that. And good luck with that non-union job. When you get fired for being on this blog rather than working, don’t come cry to the unions.

  • Jerome Saltsman

    You got the balls to throw rocks but not the stones to use your real name. How weak and sorry you are. It is precisely tea baggers like yourself that unions are galvanizing, and becoming stronger. Thanks, we appreciate that. And good luck with that non-union job. When you get fired for being on this blog rather than working, don’t come cry to the unions.

  • IMDM

    One billion dollar tax cut for each of the heirs to Walmart founder Sam Walton’s five childern over ten years thanks to Bush tax cuts for the rich; that is $50 to $60 billion dollars that five privilidged children saved in taxes. Uncut those taxes NOW!

  • Veterklj1

    It is disheartening to hear your position about unions. I too worked for a private organization and felt that I had no voice. Maybe that is why you are a little frustrated–you have no voice. Protect yourself and get unionized! Contrary to many beliefs about unionized workers having elite priviledges, it is actually large business corporation, and lets not forget Wall St. that exploit their workers instead of valuing all of the hard work and sacrifices we make to line their pockets. Unions fight for police officers to have bulletproof vests and class sizes for teachers. These are important occupational features that people often do not hear about. Do you really want 40 kids in one classroom attempting to learn? Or how about your brother, cousin or brother that has to purchase their own bulletproof vest because of “budget cuts”–providing they can actually afford it on the salary of an officer.
    Am I bias? Maybe. It could be that I have been exploited and I have seen the negative effects first hand.
    Try to be objective and look at both sides. It is unfortunate that you and your fellow coworkers are not unionized. I feel for, really I do. But maybe you should redirect your energy at the real enemy. Google the Koch brothers. You will be alarmed!!

  • Beby

    How about every parent pay the teacher to baby sit there kids. New classroom size will be about 30-35 kids at $20.00 a day. Thats about the going rate for a babysitter a day. However, they dont get the education. So, 30 x 20 =$600.00 a day x 180 days a year = Teacher now makes $108,,000 a year. But I guess you dont want to pay $3,600 a year for your childs education/babysitter. This would save the state alot of money and they would only have to cover a portion of benefits. Wait I forgot the teacher works in a school system where the parents dont show up, have no involvement, get free breakfast and lunch, plus have to send packages of food home on the weekends so the child can eat. Why is it so wrong for a person with higher education to make $50-60,000 a year to protect, serve and educate in our communities. How many of you would take a bullet, run into a fire and put up with politics on a daily basis for that kind of money. That cost to me is nominal for all of the education most of them have. If working in the private sector with that much education. Most employee’s are easily in the six figure range with 10-15 years experience. In my opinion its the people in goverment who are paid way to much for the part time job that we pay them to do. Have you looked at there salaries, there retirement packages. Now thats a waste of money. Shannon Jones from Ohio stated she leaves for work on Tuesday morning after her kids get on the bus and she is home Thursday afternoon to get them off the bus. Two and half days for a salary and benefit package which is comparable to teachers, fireman and police officers. Thats crazy. Lower wages means less tax money generated and less money for the state to spend.

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