The audience at the Fox News GOP presidential debate loudly booed Sen. Sam Brownback’s answer supporting a constitutional amendment against gay marriage again proving the GOP is WAY out of touch.

 
  • foundation (n.): The basis on which a thing stands, is founded, or is supported.

    If heterosexual marriage is a foundational institution of a well-ordered society, then why is it wrong for government to favor it and oppose other arrangements?

  • prej?u?dice (n.): Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

    I’ll play fun with definitions with ya. If you want to claim that heterosexual marriage is the foundation of our current “well-ordered society”, then I think you may make the best argument yet for gay marriage. Thanks!

  • I didn’t actually make that claim in my comment. I asked you a hypothetical “if/then” question: if heterosexual marriage is a foundational institution, then why is it wrong for government to favor it and oppose other arrangements?

    I look forward to your answer.

  • in?sti?tu?tion : a well-established and structured pattern of behavior or of relationships that is accepted as a fundamental part of a culture.

    also:

    a public or private place for the care or confinement of inmates, esp. mental patients

  • Clearly I mean the first definition. Are you unwilling to answer my hypothetical question?

    Assume for the sake of argument that heterosexual marriage is a foundational institution of a well-ordered society. Given that assumption, why would it be wrong for government to favor heterosexual marriage and oppose other arrangements?

  • How about this:

    For the sake of argument, why don’t you assume that heterosexual marriage has nothing to do with a well-ordered society.

    Again, just for the sake of argument, assume that same-sex civil unions i.e. marriages have been accepted in Western societies for hundred of years.

    Just for the sake of argument, of course.

  • To answer your hypothetical …

    For the sake of argument, why don?t you assume that heterosexual marriage has nothing to do with a well-ordered society.

    Again, just for the sake of argument, assume that same-sex civil unions i.e. marriages have been accepted in Western societies for hundred of years.

    … then there’s no reason for a secular government like ours to oppose same-sex civil unions or same-sex marriage.

    Now it’s your turn to answer my hypothetical. Assume for the sake of argument that heterosexual marriage is a foundational institution of a well-ordered society. Given that assumption, why would it be wrong for government to favor heterosexual marriage and oppose other arrangements?

  • How about it, Joseph? Eric?

  • This conversation is boring me and, to quote Ari Fleischer:

    “I don’t deal in hypotheticals”.

  • You’re reluctant to answer my hypothetical after I answered yours. Why is that? I suspect you can’t bear to follow the logic where it leads.

  • The purpose of the constitution is to guarantee the citizens of the United States a basic set of RIGHTS.

    It was never intended to be used to take those rights away- which is EXACTLY what the religious right is trying to do here.

    We tried this once with the 18th Amendment (Prohibition)- which, I suppose, seemed like a pretty good idea to the religious zealots of that era.

    On top of this, the whole idea of telling people who they can and can’t marry is nasty, small-minded, homophobic and, as it turns out, highly unpopular.

  • If heterosexual marriage is a “foundational institution of a well-ordered society”, I fail to see what impact that has on also allowing homosexual marriage. The hypothetical has no bearing on homosexual marriage, because the existence (or not) of homosexual marriage has no bearing on the existence (or not) of heterosexual marriage.

    IOW, the opposition of “other arrangements” is, absent any evidence that opposition is necessary, de facto prejudice.

    Andrew Sullivan’s recent wedding has no bearing what-so-ever on my marriage.

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